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A local guy came by and tried out my Power Arc 200 on Sunday. We were discussing 7018 rods, & I told him that I run 7018ac with my inverters. They were not as prone to moisture as regular 7018. He was telling me that he runs atom arc 7018 because it had some type of plastic coating to keep out moisture. I have never used Esab rods, has anyone used them? What's your opinion?
i have used atom arc rods and like them; if i had to choose between them and excal's it would be tough but i would probably choose the excal's because they are easier for me to get. i don't see any reason to run ac rods on your machine. the talk about moisture is way overdone and there is no way you are getting the same quality weld with those ac rods as you would be using a regular lo/hi. i recently ran some ac rod on my inverter, it was a lincoln rod right out of the box, and they sucked. jmhoQuote:
Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265
I have tried lincoln 7018ac but did not like them. Regular 7018 rods that are not kept in a rod oven do not weld as good. My experience is that you get 2-3 days before they start sticking depending on the weather. 7018ac from my experience have a longer shelf life and I have little to no waste. If I buy 7018 rods its because I am going to a job and they will not sit. I was told Atom Arc 7018 have a better shelf life after you break the seal.
That is not true. The fluxes on sticks have alloying elements that provide elements to get the correct mechanical properties of a particular filler material. Water on 7018 can lead to hydrogen in the weld and lead to cracks that form after some time. It may not look apparent but is a huge issue and why you typically see many sticks in ovens to keep the water out.Quote:
Originally Posted by fdcmiami
I agree, 7018 will not weld/arc worth a crap if they get moisture. My question is about Esab Atom Arc 7018. Are they better at keeping moisture out?Quote:
Originally Posted by DVA
Haven't used the Atom Arc 7018,,,but I would not hesitate to buy them,,,after all Esab (OK) invented the coated welding electrode ..they must have improved on them since 1904 when they started Esab...Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265
what i do when i want to try something is go out and buy it. why don't you try that. let's see, if dva tells you it's ok, you're going to buy some. talk about the blind leading the blind. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DVA
I do not think it matters much about the name on the box, but was just trying to point out that water can make a difference. I would not want someone’s trailer hitch to fall off or other issues because they were using wet 7018 and thought it was no big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by fdcmiami
dva, the name on the box is everything to most welders. ask a guy who run 20 pounds of lincoln excal a day how he'd like running some hobart for a couple of days. haha. there is some serious brand loyalty out there. the moisture/7018 discussion has become cliche; if you can't run some 7018 that's been out of the can for while you probably can't weld at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by DVA
i have a fifty pound can on the shelf at my shop, it's two thirds gone, been there about a year. i weld, no problem and it's hot and humid where i am. do you think everyone throws their rod away? at 100 plus for a fifty pound can, that's not likely. when i see rust on the ends of the rods then maybe i'll start to think about getting some more.
for the record there are several manufacturers that produce a moisture resistant welding rod. they will have the letter R on them. 7018 H4R comes to mind. using the AC rod on an inverter in place of a regular 7018? right.
wet? i have welded with wet rod, in the rain, in the pouring, driving rain. would i advise it, no. caught a couple of nice thumpers doing that when grabbing the electrode while in the stinger.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but you cannot tell that 7018 rods that have been sitting around the shop; weld as good as 7018 from a fresh can or straight from the rod oven. I have welded with lincoln exaliber 7018 that have been sitting out and you can weld with them, but you will have some rods that stick. I have tried Hobart 7018 that have been opened for a couple of weeks and you can hang it up. When I worked in structural steel all of your 7018 rods had to be in a rod oven, and the temperature was documented daily. We had to do this for the shop's certifications. When I crawl underneath something and I'm welding all out of shape I want a rod that will light up and run without sticking. That's the point of asking about Esab Atom Arc 7018 rods. The humidity here in Mississippi is terrible and it will affect my assortment of welding rods over time.
I scanned thru the esab website and didn't see any mention of particular moisture prevention coating on 7018s. You'd think they'd brag on it if they had any kind of edge on the competition.
"Esab invented the coated electrode" Hmmm, I think they get to say that because they bought the Linde div of Union Carbide lock stock and electrode stinger.
FWIW Sean, if you go FDC's route and give Esab electrodes a try and then write up your comments they'll send you some gear.
[QUOTE=fdcmiami;44146]dva, the name on the box is everything to most welders... there is some serious brand loyalty out there. the moisture/7018 discussion has become cliche; if you can't run some 7018 that's been out of the can for while you probably can't weld at all.
i have a fifty pound can on the shelf at my shop, it's two thirds gone, been there about a year. i weld, no problem and it's hot and humid where i am. do you think everyone throws their rod away? at 100 plus for a fifty pound can, that's not likely. when i see rust on the ends of the rods then maybe i'll start to think about getting some more.
for the record there are several manufacturers that produce a moisture resistant welding rod. they will have the letter R on them. 7018 H4R comes to mind. using the AC rod on an inverter in place of a regular 7018? right.QUOTE]
There is some serious brand loyalty but 7018 is 7018 and all 7018 will have issues if it is old and stored wet. The issues when welding would not show up much if you know how to weld and even if 7018 is stored around moisture it will still be fine for a fence or BBQ. If you are welding on a bridge or steam piping (code welds), if a 50 lb box was opened and not handled properly it should be thrown out and this happens all the time as it would be a violation of most welding procedures in any reputable shop.
See the attached links below regarding moisture:
See the storage instructions for this rod-
http://www.hobartbrothers.com/upload...ts/7018XLM.pdf
H4R, storage in oven is recommended:
http://www.hobartbrothers.com/upload...obart718MC.pdf
Did not need to go far for this one-
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/wo...e-7018-part-5/
H4R-
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...4r-detail.aspx
Where I live the humidity can reach 100% in the summer and is just about always over 90%. Those sheets state the over 80% humidity they need to be stored in a rod oven.
The shop next door to mine the guy kept all his rods in an old refrigerator with silica gel and a hundred watt light running in the bottom. Not a replacement for a rod oven, but a cheap way to have air tight, low humidity storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265
That is correct, that is why you see any reputable company store their opened rods in a rod oven, even in a dry climate like Arizona.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265
One thing I have seen lately from a power plant in Washington State that stores their rods in vacuumed sealed packages of 10, eliminating the need for rod ovens. This may be impractical but not a bad idea if you want to keep your rods fresh. I would think purchasing a rod oven would be more economical.
Actually, I would think that the vacuum sealer would be more economical, depending on quantity of rods to be stored. The kitchen seal-a-meal types of machines are cheaper than the basic small rod ovens I see online, so there's a smaller initial investment. And considering you're running a 100W or so load 24/7 with the rod ovens (assuming around 10 cents per kWh, works out to about $1.50/week), I could see how the vacuum seal bags would be cheaper, especially if the storage is going to be very long term. Of course, if you have a large amount of rod to store, a larger oven would be far simpler than 50 pounds of vacuum-sealed bags of rods, stored 10 to a bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by DVA
Running a heater 24-7 as they do at my work would cost some money. I was looking from the stand point on pricing, when a new box of sticks is opened up, they are divided in to a set of 10 rods and sealed. This would cost some money. To vacuum the rods after you are finished that would not be that bad as long as they were not exposed to moisture for an extended period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttonHawg
To hold the level of seal for long term rod storage you would need to use a retort pouch, and those need commercial sealers. The kitchen type ones do not pull a good vacuum and they are not vapor proof. That is fine for things that will be frozen, but not for storage outside of a freezer. Which is why the military and a few companies came up with the retort pouch for the MREs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttonHawg
The sample pack of sealed rods I saw looked like an MRE package but was colored gray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambozo