AC cleaning gone?

haven't welded for a couple of days and got a new tank of argon and hooked it up today, tried to weld a tab on an aluminum tank i built and there was black crap and it was welding like i didn't clean the aluminum at all. I tried it on some new clean 6061 stock and there is no white ring around the weld and still black crap in it? I tried new tungsten, gas lens, acetone on everything including the filler after stainless wire brush. I tried everything from 10%-50% ac balance and nothing? could this be bad gas? I also tried changing flow from about 5cfh-20cfh I wouldn't think bad gas would make the ac cleaning disappear?

Machine is 250ex, about a month old, haven't had a single problem yet and machine is welding perfectly, here is the last weld i did before switching out the bottle.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...v/S1031709.jpg

Sounds like bad gas to me. Take the tank back and swap it.

I hope it is bad gas, unfortunately i have no time to exchange it this week now since this was my only day off and they are already closed. I tried it on some cold rolled steel in DC and it seemed to work fine? I didn't really get any pinholes or anything. I flipped it back to AC and can hear the frequency so i know AC is coming on, but there is absolutely no ac cleaning at all. every once in a while it will kind of start to come back then go away again. I got the bottle from Praxair, and I'm not going back to the place after i swap the bottle anyway. last three times I've gone in the fill rate went from $35 to $45 an today $56.....less then a month on all three, wtf.

Can you post a pic of the bad weld ?

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Originally Posted by zoama585

Can you post a pic of the bad weld ?

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Good idea... BTW what would the weld look like with Argon co2 mix??? Just curious if their is co2 in it.

So here is a random weld on the same plate about a week ago, near same specs. nice even AC cleaning, and pretty clean looking weld. The next one is with the new bottle. lol. notice the lack of cleaning and black stuff in the weld. I also found this thread on another site that seems to be pretty close to my problem. http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=62633
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...v/S1031711.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...v/S1031713.jpg

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Originally Posted by Infidel

I got the bottle from Praxair, and I'm not going back to the place after i swap the bottle anyway. last three times I've gone in the fill rate went from $35 to $45 an today $56.....less then a month on all three, wtf.

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Sounds like you need a bigger bottle, too.

Since you can hear the AC and there is some cathodic etching even around the bad welds, I would bet on bad gas, too. I've never seen the results of trying to use 75/25 on aluminum, but that would be my guess. It would be nice if there was some easy way to test gas. I know for other applications there are little glass tubes that have a color changing chemical inside to test gases. It would be nice for something to distinguish pure argon from 75/25 gas blend.

If you were using 5356 filler and your new bottle contained some CO2, the magnesium in the filler will react with CO2 forming magnesium oxide and carbon.

i only got 4043, and i tried rods from 3 different batches earlier, no luck, i'll be sure to give you guys an update when i get the new bottle and try it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjZOkWm0PQbad tank of gas . i have got 2 or 3 bottles of bad gas argon and co2 and argon mix . I asked Jessie from A&B gas he tells me its the guys being lazy when checking and filling tank he says the killer is having air or oxygen in the tank before filling .he say happens when welder run a tank empty and after removing welding gauges leaves tank valve open condensation forms and air gets in tank , the fill guy when see a tank with a valve open or empty totally is suppose to purge tank with argon and evac tank before refilling , he just fired one of his guys because it cost money for bad gas fills and dosnt look good for his business. think i will make a dryer for my argon hose lol

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Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjZOkWm0PQbad tank of gas . i have got 2 or 3 bottles of bad gas argon and co2 and argon mix . I asked Jessie from A&B gas he tells me its the guys being lazy when checking and filling tank he says the killer is having air or oxygen in the tank before filling .he say happens when welder run a tank empty and after removing welding gauges leaves tank valve open condensation forms and air gets in tank , the fill guy when see a tank with a valve open or empty totally is suppose to purge tank with argon and evac tank before refilling , he just fired one of his guys because it cost money for bad gas fills and dosnt look good for his business. think i will make a dryer for my argon hose lol

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I think you hit it Rod. Looks like air with the black. There is no fan blowing is there? I posted the video in the tech area some time ago, have not made on yet but can't hurt. I did make a kitty litter crystals filter for the compressor though.

But yea, looks like air getting in the mix somehow.

Finally got a new tank and things seem to be back to normal, i only had time to try a couple beads, but the weld pool was clean and not black soot and the cleaning was back. I will update with some after pics when i get a chance. :)

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Originally Posted by Infidel

Finally got a new tank and things seem to be back to normal, i only had time to try a couple beads, but the weld pool was clean and not black soot and the cleaning was back. I will update with some after pics when i get a chance. :)

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Interesting... There have been a few posts lately with people having a contaminated tank. You would think their would be a little more quality control.

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Originally Posted by Brian Ski

Interesting... There have been a few posts lately with people having a contaminated tank. You would think their would be a little more quality control.

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Every year people seem to get a little more lazy and a little more greedy... both are highly contagious in the workplace.

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Originally Posted by zoama585

Every year people seem to get a little more lazy and a little more greedy... both are highly contagious in the workplace.

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Just wait until they start mixing flammables with oxidizers... I guess that is why they have different fittings, but there are ways around that.

I’m glad it turned out to be just bad gas … strange the way it looked. I’ve had moisture contamination before but never anything like you’ve encountered. Just upgraded from an 80 cf tank to a 150 tank … haven’t used it yet … I’ve always done business with Airgas I find them to be pretty good; only once have I found their info to be faulty … when they tried to convince me to use pure tungsten … my bad … probably should have specified I was using an inverter LOL.

Since i said i would update once i got a new bottle here's what i've done this week, all the aluminum is on the new tank, except the catch can on the left, and the coolant surge tank. welder is doing great.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...v/S1031715.jpg