Model 26 Torch & General Torch Questions...

Hi,

I have a PowerPro 205 (like it a lot) which comes with a weld-pro type model 26 torch. I decided to purchase some extra collets and discovered there exists "stubby" versions of collet and collet-body.

Is it safe to assume the stubby and non-stubby components cannot be intermixed and also, is the purpose of the stubby components so that you can cram the torch into places it would otherwise not fit? BTW: For now, I only purchased a couple spare standard-sized collet, collet bodies and shielding gaskets to have on hand.

Other questions: I see there are "gas lens" setups available. What's the advantage or, is it an issue of personal preference?

And finally, there are many other models of torch available such as 17, 18 etc... What are the major differences in the models?

Much thanks..

Ray

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Hi,

I have a PowerPro 205 (like it a lot) which comes with a weld-pro type model 26 torch. I decided to purchase some extra collets and discovered there exists "stubby" versions of collet and collet-body.

Is it safe to assume the stubby and non-stubby components cannot be intermixed and also, is the purpose of the stubby components so that you can cram the torch into places it would otherwise not fit? BTW: For now, I only purchased a couple spare standard-sized collet, collet bodies and shielding gaskets to have on hand.

Other questions: I see there are "gas lens" setups available. What's the advantage or, is it an issue of personal preference?

And finally, there are many other models of torch available such as 17, 18 etc... What are the major differences in the models?

Much thanks..

Ray

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Ray, I have a video loading today that goes over much of this.
The 17,26 and 18 all use the same consumables. 18 is water cooled. 26 and 17 are air cooled. 17 typically has one cable that serves for the power and the argon flow. The 26 has two separate ones.

The 9 and 20 use the same consumables. The 9 is air cooled, and the 20 is water cooled.

You will need quite a few ceramic nozzles because they break fairly easily. The rest will hold you for a while unless something crazy happens.

There are many different sizes and styles of gas lenses. You have to choose which is best for you and your particular type weld.

The back caps are the only thing that is different as far as "stubby" goes. All the other cons are the same. The consumables on our torches match up and are compatible with other brands with the same numeric designation.

Thank you Mark... The info helped and hope I happen to see the posting information for your upcoming video.

Here is a good video as well on the series and sizes (gas/water cooled etc), just add WP- when is says "this is a 20 series" torch (wp-20).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNjhCZRfLio

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to your video as well.

A question about this video: at time index 2:15 the presenter picks up the wp18 torch to explain the layout of water cooled torches. The long lead is for water in; the second longest lead is for the gas attachment; the short lead is the power connection. Then at 2:26 he says "To prevent preheating of water into the torch head, the water should always exit the power cable." That doesn't make intuitive sense to me, but I can be convinced: what am I missing in that statement?

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Originally Posted by DaveO

A question about this video: at time index 2:15 the presenter picks up the wp18 torch to explain the layout of water cooled torches. The long lead is for water in; the second longest lead is for the gas attachment; the short lead is the power connection. Then at 2:26 he says "To prevent preheating of water into the torch head, the water should always exit the power cable." That doesn't make intuitive sense to me, but I can be convinced: what am I missing in that statement?

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Yes, that is correct. 1. The hose is larger, and designed for fast "dumping" of the water, as all return lines in a hydraulic system are. 2. The primary goal of the water is to keep the torch head and handle itself cool, not the cable, though it does. This is an operator comfort issue, along with a longevity issue for the torch materials 3. The cable doesn't need to be kept as cool even though water flows over it, as long as it doesn't heat up to a melting point, and under the boiling point, which it does.

As promised, here is a link to the video we loaded online. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrDg5hRXY6c

The "stubby" components for your 26 style torch will allow you to fit 9/20 style cups on it, which only stick out about half as far as the 17/18/26 style cups do. So, you'll be able to get your torch into tighter places.

Typically, to make it work, you'll need to get a special stubby collet, a special stubby collet body, and you'll also need a special stubby-style teflon insulator if you are going with the stubby gas lens style collet body. Then you can use 9/20 style cups (should be regular or gas lens to match your stubby collet body) to make it all work.

CKWorldwide refers to their stubby components for 17/18/26 style torches as their "4-series"
http://www.ckworldwide.com/4series.pdf

Weldcraft is another manufacturer that makes stubby torch components, like CK does.

I really like the stubby gas lens setup. Be aware that the stubby components aren't rated to take quite as much heat (amps) as the full length versions.

There are also stubby front end parts for 9/20 series torches that allow mounting a 24 style cup onto the 9/20 style torch body.

Gas lens type setups straighten the shielding gas flow coming out of the TIG torch, similar to how the screens in a sink faucet straighten water flow coming out of the faucet. This allows one or more of: better shielding, lower gas usage, and more tungsten stickout.

Total newby here but the way I interpret it is: the conducting cable warms up and if the feed water is routed next to the conducting cable, the feed water will get warmed-up before it even cools the torch off. On the downside though, running hot water next to a conducting cable will increase the cable resistance... Double edged sword but someone probably calculated the temperature rise vs. conductivity impact and deemed it was a good trade-off...

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Originally Posted by performance

Yes, that is correct. 1. The hose is larger, and designed for fast "dumping" of the water, as all return lines in a hydraulic system are. 2. The primary goal of the water is to keep the torch head and handle itself cool, not the cable, though it does. This is an operator comfort issue, along with a longevity issue for the torch materials 3. The cable doesn't need to be kept as cool even though water flows over it, as long as it doesn't heat up to a melting point, and under the boiling point, which it does.

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Gotcha... thanks. I kinda figured it was something along those lines. For now, I'll sit tight with my extra large crayons and practice more before going on to projects that require a truncated torch.

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Originally Posted by jakeru

The "stubby" components for your 26 style torch will allow you to fit 9/20 style cups on it, which only stick out about half as far as the 17/18/26 style cups do. So, you'll be able to get your torch into tighter places.

Typically, to make it work, you'll need to get a special stubby collet, a special stubby collet body, and you'll also need a special stubby-style teflon insulator if you are going with the stubby gas lens style collet body. Then you can use 9/20 style cups (should be regular or gas lens to match your stubby collet body) to make it all work.

CKWorldwide refers to their stubby components for 17/18/26 style torches as their "4-series"
http://www.ckworldwide.com/4series.pdf

Weldcraft is another manufacturer that makes stubby torch components, like CK does.

I really like the stubby gas lens setup. Be aware that the stubby components aren't rated to take quite as much heat (amps) as the full length versions.

There are also stubby front end parts for 9/20 series torches that allow mounting a 24 style cup onto the 9/20 style torch body.

Gas lens type setups straighten the shielding gas flow coming out of the TIG torch, similar to how the screens in a sink faucet straighten water flow coming out of the faucet. This allows one or more of: better shielding, lower gas usage, and more tungsten stickout.

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RayC,

You can get stubby gas lens for both WP-17/18/26 and WP-9/20, just make sure you get N10 for the 17/18/26 and N13 for the 9/20. Was not aware you can mix them.

Let us know where you get them and the price, everyone here is always looking for a deal from a good supplier.

So far, I've found the best prices at the following places:

WeldingCity.com (they seem to have best prices on the collets, shields, torches etc and SS filler rod).
WeldFabulous.com (for AL filler rod)
BakersGas.com (for stick supplies, been dealing with this place for years).

Likewise, if you know of good sources for filler rod, please let me know... I'm getting kinda hooked on this TIG thing (still want to try MIG though).

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Originally Posted by everlastsupport

RayC,

You can get stubby gas lens for both WP-17/18/26 and WP-9/20, just make sure you get N10 for the 17/18/26 and N13 for the 9/20. Was not aware you can mix them.

Let us know where you get them and the price, everyone here is always looking for a deal from a good supplier.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ray C

So far, I've found the best prices at the following places:

WeldingCity.com (they seem to have best prices on the collets, shields, torches etc and SS filler rod).
WeldFabulous.com (for AL filler rod)
BakersGas.com (for stick supplies, been dealing with this place for years).

Likewise, if you know of good sources for filler rod, please let me know... I'm getting kinda hooked on this TIG thing (still want to try MIG though).

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Yea, Weldingcity.com is one of my favorites if you don't need it today. MIG can be a big money maker as well. We do a lot of it, mostly mods or repairs. Picked up 16 fence sections yesterday and one hurricane (16') garage door bracket, TIG, but just did 15 trailers all MIG, so both are good to know and have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ray C

Likewise, if you know of good sources for filler rod, please let me know... I'm getting kinda hooked on this TIG thing (still want to try MIG though).

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Weldingsupply.com has good prices and also a good selection. I just put in about a 40# order for filler rod with them.