Project 1 from CGCINC: Category: General welding repair

***Custom brackets to hang dehumidifier in crawlspace***

So two months ago my friend and I completely sealed his crawlspace with 12mil plastic sheet. Taped all the joints and sealed the small vents/windows shut. He was tired of loosing all his AC and heat to that area and it really worked well! He said the electric bill dropped by 40% which is huge!! He got to thinking and didn't want to create another problem by holding in moisture so he decided to buy an industrial sized Dehumidifier to install down there......... and on to the project.

We decided to hang the unit from the beam under his floor joists so we needed some brackets.
I used 1/4" x 2" flat bar for the "U" of the bracket and 1/4" x 2" angle for the lower mounting tab.
It would have been easy to MIG weld it, zippity doo, and forget about it but I decided to use the TIG to get the job done since I have more fun with it.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1155.jpg

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This weld was done quickly and I just left the rod in the corner and used small circles with the torch...I was hot and in a hurry!
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Once it was welded we drilled holes to run our threaded rod through. We had no luck finding any metric threaded rod locally so we bought some longer metric bolts that would thread into the unit and welded some 5/16" threaded rod to the bolts.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1168.jpg


Of course we needed to paint the brackets....
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1171.jpg


And we wanted to keep any vibrations to a minimum so we lined the brackets with foam rubber... As well as rubber bumpers for the threaded rod to rest on....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1173.jpg

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Next was to mount the Dehumidifier....

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1181.jpg

Up it goes! We used a level to fine tune it and it was up!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1198.jpg

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Next process was to cut a drain from his bathroom and tie into it. We used a "Y" with an assortment of other pieces to get to the barbed fitting that the drain hose would fit on......

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...t/IMG_1207.jpg

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There were no outlets at all in the basement so we changed the single switch for the lights down there to a double switch, ran wire over to where it is mounted and installed an outlet that is controled by the switch....

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And that is pretty much it!
The only thing left is to install some duct work that will come off the 6" outlet on the side of the dehumidifier and run to the other side of the crawlspace.

Nice job! I like how you improvised on those long bolts. You got to do some TIG'ing too. Looks like you are making really good use of that TIG machine!

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Originally Posted by undercut

Nice job! I like how you improvised on those long bolts. You got to do some TIG'ing too. Looks like you are making really good use of that TIG machine!

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We thought we needed longer rods than we really did... looks stupid with those rods sticking up but we were tired said..... Well, you know what we said! :)

Fine looking job. Did he get a quote on spray foam insulation ?

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Originally Posted by zoama585

Fine looking job. Did he get a quote on spray foam insulation ?

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I don't think so.... He saw this plastic kit on some website and decided to do it. I think it was about $1000 for the kit and he spent $942 on the dehumidifier. Alot of money but his electric bill went from almost $300 down to $176 last month.

A $942 humidifier must get you a condensation drain line that pumps! The ones I've seen are gravity drains, which wouldn't work in that scenario- out the back, up to the beam, and over to the plumbing is uphill all the way.

Those brackets are beautiful.

But, I've got to say, I fear that this plumbing work is likely not up to the local code. (Was it inspected? Are you aware of what the local plumbing codes are?) Typically, most US local plumbing codes are based on either IRC (international residential code) or UPC (universal plumbing code.) This could cause a problem when the house gets inspected when it comes time to sell the house.

A solution that would have been code compliant is to run the condensate lines up to the main level, and let them drain into either:
1. a floor drain
2. a clothes washer standpipe
3. a laundry tub, or
4. even into a dishwasher type tailpiece of a kitchen sink.

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Originally Posted by jakeru

4. even into a dishwasher type tailpiece of a kitchen sink.

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As long as an air gap is installed as well.

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Originally Posted by DaveO

A $942 humidifier must get you a condensation drain line that pumps! The ones I've seen are gravity drains, which wouldn't work in that scenario- out the back, up to the beam, and over to the plumbing is uphill all the way.

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Lol... Yeah, it pumps like crazy! Its pretty fancy. Auto shut off when the temp gets below 40 degrees. Interchangeable panels to move the vent outlet from side to side depending on how/where you mount it. AND, it will last in a "full time" situation like this, I think he said it was a 5 yr. warranty.

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But, I've got to say, I fear that this plumbing work is likely not up to the local code.

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I gotta take the blame on that one. He wanted to drill through the basement wall and run the hose out to the yard and I said it would look better and work better if we plug in to the drain system. We talked about it being up to code but he like the idea and said "It's up to my code!" lol... He's been there a long time and doesn't plan on moving so I don't think he has a problem. If he doe's ever move I'm sure we can fix it before he sells.
The dehumidifier was rated to pump 3 feet up so it wouldn't make it to inside the house...

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Originally Posted by jakeru

Those brackets are beautiful.

A solution that would have been code compliant is to run the condensate lines up to the main level, and let them drain into either:
1. a floor drain
.

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It's crazy that what we did with the drain is not something that will make code but running the hose up through the floor and sticking it into a floor drain will?

I thought is was strange that a jumper wire from the kitchen ran the electric switch and lights down there. is That up to code? I told him I thought it needed to be on it's own circuit... Who know's, I just weld and help with projects! :D

It's all about breaking the possiblity of backflow. As it is, if there is a clog in the main drain lines, the pipes will fill and there is the possibility of sewage flowing into the dehumidifier. Without an air gap this will continue to siphon out and flood the crawlspace without anyone knowing about it. This is why an air gap and or backflow prevention device is required on most things that have a drain line. Things like washing machines, dishwashers, RO water filters, and swimming pools all have an air gap. I believe there are some kinds of check valve type backflow prevention devices that you can use depending on the code in your area. Also there is the possibility of sewer gas venting into the crawlspace. Not good for many reasons.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

It's all about breaking the possiblity of backflow. As it is, if there is a clog in the main drain lines, the pipes will fill and there is the possibility of sewage flowing into the dehumidifier. Without an air gap this will continue to siphon out and flood the crawlspace without anyone knowing about it. This is why an air gap and or backflow prevention device is required on most things that have a drain line. Things like washing machines, dishwashers, RO water filters, and swimming pools all have an air gap. I believe there are some kinds of check valve type backflow prevention devices that you can use depending on the code in your area. Also there is the possibility of sewer gas venting into the crawlspace. Not good for many reasons.

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Ahhh, that make's sense. Hmmm, I'll pass this on to him.

Rambozo did a good job explaining the rationale behind the plumbing codes. I'm glad to hear the owner is aware that what you did might not be code compliant, and was OK with it.

There seem to be a few other likely issues with that plumbing shown in the pictures as well. I see what looks like three sanitary tees being used on their backs, which is a "no-no". This graphic explains the most commonly performed correct - and incorrect - usage of sanitary tees and wyes:
Attachment 7382

Also, there's no evidence of any primer (purple looking stuff) being used on the PVC solvent weld joints. Sometimes that's required to be used. Often times new drain work will be pressure tested as part of the inspection. (All good reasons to route the condensate into an existing trap!) Routing the condensate into a flower bed would have been a good idea... until winter hit and it freezes solid.

There condensate pumps designed for pumping condensate up a floor or two, if needed. I always think it's best to have gravity do the work whenever possible, though.
Attachment 7383

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Originally Posted by jakeru

Also, there's no evidence of any primer (purple looking stuff) being used on the PVC solvent weld joints. Sometimes that's required to be used.

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You should use the primer all the time... But I think the purple primer looks sloppy. I use the clear stuff myself.

Reminds me when I was checking out a house years ago... A friend was interested in it. I opened the crawl space door and the floor was completely cover in plastic. As you looked in/through the plastic it was all covered in thick black mold on the underside of the plastic. A whole lot of humidity here!!!!

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Originally Posted by CGCINC

It's crazy that what we did with the drain is not something that will make code but running the hose up through the floor and sticking it into a floor drain will?

I thought is was strange that a jumper wire from the kitchen ran the electric switch and lights down there. is That up to code? I told him I thought it needed to be on it's own circuit... Who know's, I just weld and help with projects! :D

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If you put it above a floor drain so there is a gap between the end of the hose and the drain, so it does not have a chance of pressurizing waste/sewer gases back up the hose. That is why when you hook a dishwasher to a drain it has a check valve in the line to prevent gases or sink drain water back tot he dishwasher.

If the circuit in the kitchen was a lighting circuit feeding lights that would be ok. Adding a couple outlets on it depends on the load of the dehumidifier. If you find the breaker tripping I would run a new line. Would be nice to mark the breaker box as such so it gives the next guy an idea what feeds them. Not wanting to yank your chain... You need a staple on the wire within 12" of the box. Keeps from having the wire pulled out of the plastic box.

You did a good job... I am kind of curious about the house. The floor should have been insulated and the duct work insulated. No wonder the heating/cooling was so expensive.

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Originally Posted by Brian Ski

If the circuit in the kitchen was a lighting circuit feeding lights that would be ok. Adding a couple outlets on it depends on the load of the dehumidifier. If you find the breaker tripping I would run a new line. Would be nice to mark the breaker box as such so it gives the next guy an idea what feeds them. Not wanting to yank your chain... You need a staple on the wire within 12" of the box. Keeps from having the wire pulled out of the plastic box.

You did a good job... I am kind of curious about the house. The floor should have been insulated and the duct work insulated. No wonder the heating/cooling was so expensive.

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We used clear primer on our connection...
We didn't trace the electric feed wire to see what it was from but we did add the outlet!?!? The humidifier draws 6.2 amps and we did re-label the box, the breaker was marked "kitchen" so we added "crawl space lights and outlet".
I forgot to grab my wire staples so we didn't have any at the time of the pictures but they will be added.
The house was built in 96 and it's in my old neighbor hood..My old house was exactly like this one, cheaply built with no insulation at all underneath.


Stop yankin my chain! :)