Reccommend me An Everlast Tig Please

Hey guys, new to the forum. I'm currently in the process of building a twin turbo trans am. I have everything done minus the turbo kit, and I'm now looking at buying a TIG welder to fab up my own kit.

I will be using 1 3/4 16ga 304 stainless tubing for the headers, and 2mm thick 3" aluminum for the downpipes.

Here are some examples of what I'll be doing. Let me know what series Everlast TIG welder you all recommend me to use for this project. BTW, I'll be doing this in my home. Thanks!

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/42...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/43...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/32...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/43...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/22...500x500Q85.jpg

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/turbo-setup.jpg

A few questions first;

1 - Are you just doing steel, or will be doing aluminum as well?
2 - What is the maximum thickness of material needed?
3 - Occasional or heavy use?
4 - Power available
5 - Time frame - can you wait?

That will help to narrow it down. There are some other newly designed welders that are also coming.

Cheers,

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike J

A few questions first;

1 - Are you just doing steel, or will be doing aluminum as well?
2 - What is the maximum thickness of material needed?
3 - Occasional or heavy use?
4 - Power available
5 - Time frame - can you wait?

That will help to narrow it down. There are some other newly designed welders that are also coming.

Cheers,

Mike

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I stated most of the answers to those questions in the post, but here it is again:

1 - Are you just doing steel, or will be doing aluminum as well? Both stainless and aluminum.
2 - What is the maximum thickness of material needed? I will be welding 16ga stainless, and 2mm thick 6061 aluminum.
3 - Occasional or heavy use? I will be using it for this project, and similar ones.
4 - Power available: I'm not sure, I guess whatever comes in a traditional US home.
5 - Time frame - can you wait? I will be starting in April

you do not state how much experience you have with Tig Welding so if some of my answers to your Questions seem to simplified it is just that i want to try to give you a feel for the different units.

From reading your requirements then i would have to say any model AC DC Tig we have will be apropriate for your needs . The question then remains what is the best for you.
you can get carried away and look at some future Models that are complex in Setting and require a more advanced knowledge in setting the machine to get the correct welding parameters etc.
Or you can go to the basic PowerTig 185 Micro with a simple Frequency and balance adjustment for AC and no other adjustable settings besides amps and post flow . this is probably the easiest set up and use Welder we have for AC /DC .
my own recomendation would be to go with either the 200DX or the 225LX with the edge going to the 225lx because it has a few other settings and i prefer the foot control set up on this over the 200DX.
Setting aside the foot pedal ( it is not a big deal but you have to set max amps on the pedal ) the 200DX is probably all you will ever need and the settings are practical and not exotic and of course you have the pulse features which is particularly handy for Stainless.

One last point i should bring up in regards to the 185 is that this past December we did a few changes to the top board and this was done to improve reliability and protection to some key components. in testing them at the Factory i was very pleased with them and then again here in Canada ( today actually ) i was going over them and i am very pleased with them.
One point that may be of interest or even a deciding factor is the new Amp Control Tig torches will fit the 200dx 225lx 250ex pp 205 and pp256
cheers
Duncan

Based on the info you have provided, My HUMBLE opinion would put you on the 200DX. Just a shade over a grand will give you the capabilities to do exactly what you are intending to do. Plus, if you were to opt to not keep the unit after your project is complete, my guess would be a free ad on that "list" site would have an eager buyer for close to what you paid. There tends to be a mindset (psychologically) people buying used stuff LIKE things for under the four-digit mark meaning $995.00 will generate a lot more interest than $1000.00. If money isn't an issue, I'd recommend going for the biggie, the 250EX. That's what I'm doin'! Good luck.

It depends on what you are willing to spend. It's better to have a more capable welder rather than wish you had one.

I second Hooda on the 250EX. A WP20 torch is also highly recommended.

Are you sure you weren't thinking that you wanted to use "aluminized steel" for your downpipe (which would be, aluminum coated mild steel, a very popular, budget material to use on automotive exhausts? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminized_steel )

Aluminum loses strength (and dimensional stability) when it is heated up to about 700 degrees F. At that temperature, it basically gets "soft", and anneals. Once you heated an aluminum exhaust up to about that temperature, the flange (if aluminum) could warp, muffler clamps (if you are using them) could loosen as the aluminum material that is under pressure, moves and relaxes, it may "sag", etc. (not stay in the original location where you fabricated it to be at.)

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Originally Posted by jakeru

Are you sure you weren't thinking that you wanted to use "aluminized steel" for your downpipe (which would be, aluminum coated mild steel, a very popular, budget material to use on automotive exhausts? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminized_steel )

Aluminum loses strength (and dimensional stability) when it is heated up to about 700 degrees F. At that temperature, it basically gets "soft", and anneals. Once you heated an aluminum exhaust up to about that temperature, the flange (if aluminum) could warp, muffler clamps (if you are using them) could loosen as the aluminum material that is under pressure, moves and relaxes, it may "sag", etc. (not stay in the original location where you fabricated it to be at.)

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If it is a drag racing application (which I assume from teh pics of the dump pipes), It is pretty common to use aluminum for the downpipes. If a muffler is used, it will likely soften and pssibly melt, but with teh dumps it should be ok. That said, the aliminum is usually only used when weight savings are paramount...

If you will be running the welder off of a clothes dryer outlet (30 amp), I woudl reccommend either the 185 or the 200. Quite frankly, teh 185 has all that you will really ever need when doing this type of welding. The 200 has, along with a bit more power, a few more controls, namely the ability to use pulse. That said, even pulse is a pretty advanced feature and most beginners get hooked on all of the pretty knobs and forget that they are actually trying to weld rather than be a knob looker...

185 Micro or 200DX will suit you well. Note, the 200DX uses a rhostat mounted on teh footpedal to control current when teh pedal is in use. The max current will not be controlled or display on the panel during setup.

I have a 200DX and am able to run at full power from a 30A dryer outlet through a ~110ft 10 awg extension cord.

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Originally Posted by Titan winch

One last point i should bring up in regards to the 185 is that this past December we did a few changes to the top board and this was done to improve reliability and protection to some key components. in testing them at the Factory i was very pleased with them and then again here in Canada ( today actually ) i was going over them and i am very pleased with them.
One point that may be of interest or even a deciding factor is the new Amp Control Tig torches will fit the 200dx 225lx 250ex pp 205 and pp256
cheers
Duncan

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Duncan, do you have any more information on the tig torch amp control?

Also, any info on the duty cycle and max output of the 185? Are these dual voltage models? If so output and ~duty cycle on 110V would be good to know as well.

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Originally Posted by sportbike

Duncan, do you have any more information on the tig torch amp control?

Also, any info on the duty cycle and max output of the 185? Are these dual voltage models? If so output and ~duty cycle on 110V would be good to know as well.

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There is not a lot more information to tell you in regards to the tig torches. They are 14'-0" and are made for the models i listed above. There is a picture showing them and as far as looks go they are very similar to the Diversion torch .
I spoke to the factory a couple of days ago ( i know there is a holiday but i have cell numbers for people i deal with ) and told them to have them ready for me in a couple of weeks time ( 3 weeks)
I did all my testing using these torches this past December and i like them. The only issue i have and this is not a big deal is the 250EX 4T operation will not start a arc below 20 (AC) amps and maintain it. However you can set amp start and then it will maintain and drop to lower amps. But on all other models it is not applicable as AC start is 20 amps anyway.

The 185 is 35% Duty Cycle and the following numbers are Accurate and not just taken with a clamp Multimeter
All readings where based on 110v if you use 120v- 125v the Amp output numbers are higher.
I chose the lowest settings only because i wanted to see the minimum it would do .
I may redo a few next month and give official numbers using 120 or even 130v just to make the numbers look better ( some specs from well known manufacturers use 130 on some models )

15 amp Breaker = 63 amps output
20 amp breaker = 81 amps output
27 amp breaker = 103 amps output ( I know no breaker is 27amps but this is maximum output on 110v )
Readout will display +or - 110 amps on max so it is off a little but i am still happy with it as the earlier versions of our Dual voltage would only read in 220v mode giving the same setting as 185

First off, welcome to the forums, tt ws6! One thing I’ve learned by hanging out on this site is that there’s a lot more to TIG welding than meets the eye. It’s an art as much as a science, in the way that computer programming is an art as much as a science. Stepping back for a moment, notice how many responses you received to this post: lots of guys very interested in welding, and their interest is spilling over into wanting you to enjoy and be successful.

Very cool that you’re working on the turbos, and thanks for the pics. Do you mind sharing your welding history / experience? That info can channel the way the conversation goes- the 250EX machine takes a water cooled torch, for instance, which requires additional infrastructure. The 250EX can use an air cooled torch below a certain amp range, too, but that’s the sort of thing you’d need to know, and knowing a little of your history can make the explanations easier.

And do you mind sharing your location? There may be another member just down the road.

Thanks for the responses so far guys, really helpful. As far as the downpipes, I have been around numerous twin turbo setups to know that aluminum will work, so I have no concern there.

I have never TIG welded, but I have been around a friend for a few years who is a fabricator and actually sit by him while he welds so I can learn (the pics I posted is actually stuff he made, and I watched the entire build process). I have also watched most of the weldingtipsandtricks videos, and I think I have a good understanding of it, just never had the time/place/or welder to start practicing myself.

After I'm done with this project I will more than likely be keeping the welder as I'd like to actually make the kits for others and sell them.

I think I'm leaning towards the 200DX right now. Would I be able to power a 250EX from my home from the dryer outlet? I guess what I'm asking is, if I get the 250EX, would I be limited from my home, where as if I get the 200DX I'd get the same results given the power limitations of my home.

Yes you can run a 250EX from a dryer outlet. The total amperage draw is 45 amps which means that you are pulling 22.5 amps through each 120V circuit that makes 240V. Dryer circuits are usually set up for 30 amps for each leg. For safety sake you should never exceed 80% of the rated amperage on the circuit breaker. On a 30 amp breaker 24 amps is 80%. The 250EX pulls 22.5 amps, so you are safe.

I have run my 250EX through an unused dryer plug and use NEMA 6-50 plugs and outlets. Except for changing out a weak breaker, no issues at all.

Based on the pictures you provided, I wanted to say NICE JOB SO FAR!! You are also going to be looking at a purge setup to get those headers welded to their max strength, I would advise that you use the search function on this forum for more info. Are you out there Jakeru? This is irrelevant to which machine you will ultimately end up buying, but I wanted to mention it in case of budgetary concerns. You should be able to put together a decent purge setup for under $100.00. Plus, I would recommend a torch upgrade, watercooler, if in-budget, and a champagne nozzle that will allow you to stick that tungsten way out there for getting into the tight spots on the headers. Just another $0.02 worth of advice. If you go 200dx, your total outlay, including welder, cooler, wp20 torch, purge setup, and champagne nozzle should set you back UNDER $1800 total, plus shipping on the periphals from other vendors, and you'll be setup like a PRO!! Then it's just a matter of practice before you start making the beautiful welds that your setup deserves. You can PM me for more info on the purge and champagne nozzle. Good Luck!!

By the way, What year is the TransAm? I had a '77 with a 400/4speed. One of my favorite cars I've ever owned. 'til I spun a rod bearing on Interstate H1. Yes, I owned it in Hawaii.

No matter what machine you buy you need to figure the argon tank into the amount you need to speed. Get the largest one the lws will sell you it goes fast, real fast when you are pumping behind your weld. Also need to figure consummables you will need more than starter kit that comes with welder. Just things to keep in mind.:D

Thanks for all the help guys, I've narrowed it down to the 200DX for now. I will be either ordering one soon or picking up a used one.

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Originally Posted by hooda

Based on the pictures you provided, I wanted to say NICE JOB SO FAR!! You are also going to be looking at a purge setup to get those headers welded to their max strength, I would advise that you use the search function on this forum for more info. Are you out there Jakeru? This is irrelevant to which machine you will ultimately end up buying, but I wanted to mention it in case of budgetary concerns. You should be able to put together a decent purge setup for under $100.00. Plus, I would recommend a torch upgrade, watercooler, if in-budget, and a champagne nozzle that will allow you to stick that tungsten way out there for getting into the tight spots on the headers. Just another $0.02 worth of advice. If you go 200dx, your total outlay, including welder, cooler, wp20 torch, purge setup, and champagne nozzle should set you back UNDER $1800 total, plus shipping on the periphals from other vendors, and you'll be setup like a PRO!! Then it's just a matter of practice before you start making the beautiful welds that your setup deserves. You can PM me for more info on the purge and champagne nozzle. Good Luck!!

By the way, What year is the TransAm? I had a '77 with a 400/4speed. One of my favorite cars I've ever owned. 'til I spun a rod bearing on Interstate H1. Yes, I owned it in Hawaii.

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Yeah I've read up on purge setups already. My basic understanding of it is that you need it so that the inside weld of the pipe doesn't get contaminated correct?

My Trans Am is a 2001 WS6. It's a full blown build from the ground up. I'm building it as a fun street car that should make around 1100whp. Full tubular BMR suspension, FAB 9", AFCO coilovers all around, Fikse Aros, Custom fabbed fuel cell, TR6060 conversion, forged LS3, 2000cc injectors, e85, yada yada... list goes on :)

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/turbo...od%20rxt/7.jpg

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/turbo...12-23-11/1.jpg

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/turbo...12-23-11/4.jpg

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/turbo...7-11/rear1.png

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Originally Posted by sportbike

If it is a drag racing application (which I assume from teh pics of the dump pipes), It is pretty common to use aluminum for the downpipes. If a muffler is used, it will likely soften and pssibly melt, but with teh dumps it should be ok. That said, the aliminum is usually only used when weight savings are paramount...

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Good observation on the dump tube design indicating likelihood of it being a trailered drag race car.

I actually have about a two-three foot long length of 2.5" aluminum (6061-T6) exhaust pipe under my dedicated autocross race car. That's kind of a long story though. But I am no stranger to trying it. The weight was its attraction. Compared to stainless steel of the same wall thickness (.065"), you're talking pounds of weight savings. For a competitive racing class where you are going after every ounce possible, an opportunity to save pounds can be pretty tempting. And it's amazingly inexpensive compared to other lightweight alternatives (super thin wall stainless, or if you've really got deep pockets... titanium) as well. As an unexpected side benefit, I found it seemed to have made the exhaust noise quieter too.

Ceramic-aluminum coated steel pipes ("cermachrome") also look almost exactly like aluminum, and can be very easily mistaken for aluminum if just determined by a casual glance. Although, those downpipes in the picture do look awfully aluminum-y. A close-up of the welds would be easier to tell. Definitely not aluminized steel, though. But possibly cermachrome. A magnet would tell for sure. ;) Maybe OP will clarify. And if they are aluminum, I'm curious to know how many drag runs they last.

If aluminum welding (AC TIG) is not a required feature, a DC-only TIG machine is a possibility, for less cost (< $400) and/or possibly improved portablility (120V, and the size of a lunch box.) But... an AC -capable TIG machine is quite a versatile tool, that the OP should consider AC machines regardless of whether he actually ends up welding aluminum downpipes. (The Everlast 185 micro also seems pretty portable, if that is desired.)

Edit:

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Originally Posted by tt ws6

Thanks for the responses so far guys, really helpful. As far as the downpipes, I have been around numerous twin turbo setups to know that aluminum will work, so I have no concern there.

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tt - just read this; thanks for the clarification. Others' machine recommendations are good. It depends whether 120V capability (for more portability, a la "185 Micro") is a nice feature, versus some more amps and higher duty cycle for welding thicker material (200DX). It's also worth considering, that the pulsing feature if the 200DX may be beneficial for welding the stainless steel with a little less oxidation and heat input.

Or, spend more money on an even bigger and more powerful yet machine (say, 250EX), but do plan to feed it with a minimum 40-50A 240V circuit, and do plan on a watercooler box and torch to take advantage of that additional power and duty cycle capability. Hope this helps. cheers

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Originally Posted by Grizzly1944

Yes you can run a 250EX from a dryer outlet. The total amperage draw is 45 amps which means that you are pulling 22.5 amps through each 120V circuit that makes 240V. Dryer circuits are usually set up for 30 amps for each leg. For safety sake you should never exceed 80% of the rated amperage on the circuit breaker. On a 30 amp breaker 24 amps is 80%. The 250EX pulls 22.5 amps, so you are safe.

I have run my 250EX through an unused dryer plug and use NEMA 6-50 plugs and outlets. Except for changing out a weak breaker, no issues at all.

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Thanks Grizz I had that same question. how long and what gauge extention cord are you using and does that influence the situation. I have a 50' 10 Gauge cord...

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Originally Posted by kenwhite

I would just like to clarify a few things.

The 2 - 120V circuits are in series with each other so both branches see exactly the same current through them. Looking at the specifications, the current can be as high as 36A if the supply voltage is as low as 220V. However, this current is only drawn when the welder is operating at its maximum capabilities and will be less than this if welding thinner materials.

If you do trip the breaker, reduce the welders output power if you can for the weld you are producing, reset the breaker, and try again. You won't hurt anything since the breaker is sized to protect the wiring which is the concern.

If you keep tripping the breaker, you will have to upgrade your branch to handle a 40A load.

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I always thought 220/240 A.C. was a parallel circuit with the direction of current alternating at 60htz. effectively balancing the load between the two conductors. I'm not an electrician but I have rewired a house and upgraded a service panel to 200 amps before. Please elaborate if I am mistaken.

I'm with PowerTIG on this one; I've always understood my residential service to be single phase. I'm not an electrician either, so please educate me if this is incorrect.

The phase of the power coming through the utility transformer should not change, only the voltage should change. Phase, as I understand it, is an artifact of the generators the utility uses to generate power. There are 3 phases, 120 degrees out of phase with one another, based in the armature windings of the generator.

The power I receive at my house should be single phase 240v, and divided into 2 120v in-phase legs by the center tap. Besides, (mathematically speaking) if you put two sources 180 degrees out of phase in series, don't you have zero volts? (I.e. they cancel one another)

Thanks
Mike