included torch and capabilities

just looking on the site and reading that the 225lx 250ex and pp256 all three machines im looking at come with a water cooled torch? but the water cooler is extra so im wondering why it dosent just come with an aircooled torch with the option to buy a watercooled one as well as the cooler? id just like a simple set up for now with no cooler. will the 225 , 250 or 256 just melt the torch it comes with unless its hooked up to a water cooler? and if a aircooled is what i want can i just get it shipped with one or do i gotta buy it seperate? thanks.

Jonny.

You only need the water for the higher amps. You can run atnlower amps withou water and not melt the torch. Dont quote me, but typical 125 -150 should be when u want water

I've had my LX225 without water cooling for a year and a half now and can only remember once that I had to lay down the torch and let it cool a bit. And it might have been my WP-20!
I do very little aluminium though so normally I'm under 160 amps. I have had it cranked to the max with the WP-18 (the one that comes with it) and no cooling. You just gotta take breaks. I have no plans to add water cooling.

If you were into production welding or some other serious duty stuff you would want a water cooler. I guess that's why they include a water cooled torch; it gives their customers maximum flexibility.

You can cool a watercooled torch "on the cheap", without a watercooler, by just running pressurized tap water through it, allowing it to drain somewhere (like outside, or into a laundry tub drain, etc.)

Running a watercooled torch without any water in it at all risks internal cable damage, which you may not be able to tell whether it happened or not from a casual external visual inspection. For example:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...=4899#post4899

Ow!
Yeah, don't let your torch melt down. Mine never got beyond "slightly uncomfortable in an ungloved hand" and flows fine.
(PS - the ungloved hand is how we get our vitamin D up here. :) Burns too! )

The main reason for supplying them this way is to not have people getting a air cooled torch and running at the max and then burning it out, and we then get a warranty claim as it is the torch we have supplied to be used for our welder.
this way we reccomend and supply the correct torch for the welder in question.
you also need to keep in mind the US torches and Canadian Torches are different . I supply a upgraded torch with my units and these tend to perform better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titan winch

The main reason for supplying them this way is to not have people getting a air cooled torch and running at the max and then burning it out, and we then get a warranty claim as it is the torch we have supplied to be used for our welder.
this way we reccomend and supply the correct torch for the welder in question.
you also need to keep in mind the US torches and Canadian Torches are different . I supply a upgraded torch with my units and these tend to perform better.

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Do you have a picture or a discription of the different torch you supply I'm just trying to get an idea of what it comes with. If its a water cooled torch would it not burn up on max amps too? Or are you saying the user would burn up the welder if he had a aircooled torch designed for full amps of the machine? Sorry your post was unclear to me thanks

Jonny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonnywoods

Do you have a picture or a discription of the different torch you supply I'm just trying to get an idea of what it comes with. If its a water cooled torch would it not burn up on max amps too? Or are you saying the user would burn up the welder if he had a aircooled torch designed for full amps of the machine? Sorry your post was unclear to me thanks

Jonny.

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He's saying that if they supplied an air cooled torch that was rated less than the machine, then customers would burn the torch or cable and want it replaced under warranty (6 months on accessories).

Sorry I would have thought that if it was supplied with an aircooled torch that the torch would be rated for the welder out put. How many amps is the supplied water cooled torch rated for? The specs are not available. Thanks

Jonny

You have to poke around a bit to find them, but there are some specifications for the factory supplied watercooled torch (for Everlast USA, at least) as well as for other Everlast torches on this page:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Ev...ig-Torches.php
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...WP18S15E_1.jpg
"WP18S15E - Economy 18 series torch supplied OEM with Everlast welders. Euro handle design. Straight neck, non flex. 15 ft. Rated: 300 Amp DC, 250 Amp AC @ 60% duty cycle."

You never see air cooled torch with much more than about 160A and usually at some low duty cycle.

(Note that the rating for pretty well all welder paraphernalia refers to duty cycle, since you generally weld for a few seconds, then have to reposition, etc and that gives time for the thing to cool off. If you exceed the duty cycle you risk melting things down. Of course, you usually have to be at least a little negligent.)

The torch I have from Duncan is very much like the pictured one except it's blue. The covering is rubber rather than fabric. I could post a picture if you want, but it really won't tell you much.
What are you planing on doing? Mostly aluminum or mostly [stainless]steel? If mostly aluminum, you're going to want a cooler..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonnywoods

Sorry I would have thought that if it was supplied with an aircooled torch that the torch would be rated for the welder out put. How many amps is the supplied water cooled torch rated for? The specs are not available. Thanks

Jonny

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Yes, that is what you would think...BUT Miller puts a 150 amps torch with their 200 amp units.

Air cooled torches max out at 200 amps btw.

Everlast does sell air cooled torches. When I purchased my PP256 I opted to get a wp20 air cooled torch to use. Most of my welding will be under 200 AMPs which is as Mark pointed out the max you will want to run an air cooled. While I was waiting for them to get the other torch in stock, I did use my factory torch without water cooler for 2 projects and it was fine. If the torch gets hot, just let it cool but I only had to set it down maybe once or twice for getting hot and that was after a few welds around a 2.5 pipe.

thanks for all the info guys.

Jasn,
The the WP 20 is NOT air cooled. The WP9 is aircooled.

maybe I got them mixed up.. Same size though and looks the same??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jason

maybe I got them mixed up.. Same size though and looks the same??

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Yes... wp-9 air...wp-20 water.

anybody know the size of fitting for the discharge side, I dropped my torch the other day and broke of the end. I tried to get the rest of the brass fitting out but it got so mangled i was not able to save it.