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Thread: PowerTig 185 Micro Initial Fire Up!!

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    There isn't 4T on the welder. Only 2T.
    We need to also consider just what costs are involved in adding features to what we wanted, This being a Good Basic TIG Welder . Having said this i will be looking into options for our existing and future customers in the next few weeks.
    Cheers
    EVERLAST CANADA
    www.everlastwelders.ca
    www.titanwinches.com

    905 637 1637

  2. #22

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    Curious if vette or anyone else has continued with this? I figure you could get a good number of folks to pay a little extra for a pedal control. Do you think ssc could build something as an option part? I saw they came up with a pretty nice unit for everlast.

    Definitely be seeing if I can wire something together. Having 22k at zero really complicates it though as pointed out :/

  3. #23
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore88 View Post
    Curious if vette or anyone else has continued with this? I figure you could get a good number of folks to pay a little extra for a pedal control. Do you think ssc could build something as an option part? I saw they came up with a pretty nice unit for everlast.

    Definitely be seeing if I can wire something together. Having 22k at zero really complicates it though as pointed out :/
    If someone provides instructions (WITH photos), I will go to the electronics store, buy the parts, and do the mod. I like the idea of being able to adjust max machine output at the pedal, and will post the procedure and results here. I just don't have the electronics savvy to figure it out myself.
    "It's not magic it's experimental, kind of like washing your hands after pooping used to be." -House

    Everlast PowerTig 250EX-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerCool W300-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerTig 185 Micro-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerPlasma 70-arrived 1-26-2012
    ESAB MigMaster 250-borrowed
    HyperTherm 151 AKA "The Light Sabre"
    Linde UCC-305-964 lb. of old time water cooled TIG love-SOLD-Bad MOJO
    Purox OXY/ACETYLENE

  4. #24
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    Fridley, Minnesota
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    Default DIFFERENT PEDALS for DIFFERENT MACHINES!

    Just thought I would put out there that, even though the pedal on my 185 micro is non-adjustable, it is NOT compatible with the pedal on my 250EX. The 250EX pedal has a sticker on it that says 47K, and the pedal on the 185 Micro has a sticker that says 22K. Is the 22K figure closer to what the majors are using, so maybe I could get a finger amp control that's compatible easier?
    "It's not magic it's experimental, kind of like washing your hands after pooping used to be." -House

    Everlast PowerTig 250EX-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerCool W300-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerTig 185 Micro-arrived 1-26-2012
    Everlast PowerPlasma 70-arrived 1-26-2012
    ESAB MigMaster 250-borrowed
    HyperTherm 151 AKA "The Light Sabre"
    Linde UCC-305-964 lb. of old time water cooled TIG love-SOLD-Bad MOJO
    Purox OXY/ACETYLENE

  5. #25

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    I know that some blue and reds use anywhere from 5 to 15k ohms so you could say 22k is a little more standard.

    Mechanically I think I could place a second 22k pot which runs on a reduced gearing or pulley ratio so full pedal ends up being 11k or half power. I know I cant normally reduce the max res of a pot with series or para resistors AND keep it linear. Have to use an op amp or transconductance converter or some work around. If only 0 was 0 amps lol.

    Does the unit measure current or a voltage signal coming from the pedal?

  6. #26

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    While sitting in the car for class I came up with this. Im going to have to test and run some calcs to see if its going to mess with the linearity of the pedal signal. If it doesnt or not badly then we're all good. If it does...well back to the drawing board.

    Essentially what Im going to try is to cut the sweep of the pot to only hit 11k to 0k during a full sweep, then zero shift it so it runs 22 to 11k. The diode on there is to keep the "secondary" circuit from flowing because both are connected at all times. The diode allows the switch to have control over circuit selection otherwise the parallel res would always leak in. This was how I figured to do this whole getup with just a single switch on the outside of the pedal. If anyone has ideas Id love to confer. Picking up a micro soon and I love to tinker.
    Last edited by Commodore88; 03-03-2012 at 05:11 AM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore88 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    While sitting in the car for class I came up with this. Im going to have to test and run some calcs to see if its going to mess with the linearity of the pedal signal. If it doesnt or not badly then we're all good. If it does...well back to the drawing board.

    Essentially what Im going to try is to cut the sweep of the pot to only hit 11k to 0k during a full sweep, then zero shift it so it runs 22 to 11k. The diode on there is to keep the "secondary" circuit from flowing because both are connected at all times. The diode allows the switch to have control over circuit selection otherwise the parallel res would always leak in. This was how I figured to do this whole getup with just a single switch on the outside of the pedal. If anyone has ideas Id love to confer. Picking up a micro soon and I love to tinker.
    Disclaimer: IANA Electrical Engineer, only a EE student.

    I was thinking about this and decided to model a few different resistance values when the pedal goes from 22K Ohms to 0K Ohms. You'll also have to be careful with the use of that diode considering you'll have to overcome the forward voltage associated with it (usually 0.3V to 0.7V) and that will definitely affect the voltage drop across the resistive circuit. See the plot below for how different resistance values would affect the range of the output....

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by unixgeek; 03-05-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  8. Default

    Commodore, your circuit would work pretty well, if you just forgot about the diode, and replaced that single switch with a DPST switch. Depending on the the current through that circuit (and the diode) and the diode's parameters, you can get a very non-linear behavior, not to mention to the voltage drop. Also, your design will cause some non-linearity of the pedal because of the paralleling nature of the resistors.

    This is intriguing me, though. My mind is too tired right now, though. I'll think on it some more in the morning.

    Unixgeek, how far along are you?
    Vice Grips
    WD-40
    Duct Tape

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmechanic View Post
    Commodore, your circuit would work pretty well, if you just forgot about the diode, and replaced that single switch with a DPST switch. Depending on the the current through that circuit (and the diode) and the diode's parameters, you can get a very non-linear behavior, not to mention to the voltage drop. Also, your design will cause some non-linearity of the pedal because of the paralleling nature of the resistors.

    This is intriguing me, though. My mind is too tired right now, though. I'll think on it some more in the morning.

    Unixgeek, how far along are you?
    Well, I'm a non-traditional student. I'm a software developer by profession and decided to finally go back and finish up my bachelors. I'm working through what would by my third year, slowly but surely.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unixgeek View Post
    Well, I'm a non-traditional student. I'm a software developer by profession and decided to finally go back and finish up my bachelors. I'm working through what would by my third year, slowly but surely.
    Ahh, cool. Well, stick with it! It'll be tough. I have sleepless nights to prove it!


    Anyway, I have a solution for you guys. All it takes is a tiny bit of re-wiring and another pot, which can be bought easily. This mod has a non-linear current control behavior, just like the original pedal. I suspect they did this or something very similar in the original design (aka, the prototype).

    Here's the circuit.

    I used a 100k pot here. The upper value of the adjustment pot sets your lower current limit. However, the higher the adjustment pot value, the more of an exponentially increasing current you'll get as you turn up the adjustment. So, it's a tradeoff between minimum current, and current adjustment granularity/resolution.

    Basically, the design requirement was setting the minimum resistance the pedal would ever generate, while having the maximum resistance always be 22k, such that pedal resolution was not lost. That circuit produces the following:



    The red plot is the maximum resistance generated by the pedal at rest over the entire adjustment pot range, notice it's always 22k. The blue plot is the minimum resistance generated by the pedal over the entire adjustment pot range. Notice it's non-linear like I said, with an exponentially increasing response. Again, you could fiddle with this if you wanted. With the 100k pot, you can get down to about 7% of full current. Not bad. In the lower adjustment ranges, this will also cause the pedal behavior to be slightly non-linear too. All about tradeoffs. It shouldn't be a problem, though. You can see it in this 3d plot



    One axis is the foot pedal position, the other axis is adjustment position. The Z axis is resistance. You can see the minimum resistance being limited, and the more it is, the less linear the foot pedal resistance becomes. It's not bad though.

    Anyway, enjoy your adjustment capabilities!

    At my rate, that'll be about $160.


    Juuuuuust kidding.
    Vice Grips
    WD-40
    Duct Tape

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hooda View Post
    Sean, The unit runs in 2T OR pedal modes only. No 4T, and no max amp adjustment while in pedal mode.
    If I realized this before I bought it, I would have opted for a different machine. I have spent time and money on adapters and a weldcraft torch so I can do some very thin metal. Now I learned that I cant adjust max amps while in pedal mode. Disappointing to say the least. Get what you pay for I suppose. For basic welding 1 to 185 amps at the pedal works I guess. I makes for a pretty touchy range when doing thin stuff though.

  12. Default

    This machine is actually a really nice unit and while it has just a little more to offer than a basic model it does not have all features of our other models . And we have never said any different .
    With the 185 you get a lot more than what you pay for.
    Cheers
    EVERLAST CANADA
    www.everlastwelders.ca
    www.titanwinches.com

    905 637 1637

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan winch View Post
    This machine is actually a really nice unit and while it has just a little more to offer than a basic model it does not have all features of our other models . And we have never said any different .
    With the 185 you get a lot more than what you pay for.
    Cheers
    While I certainly agree that it is a great value, and may add one to my race trailer, it is a bit misleading to have the online manual explicitly state that it is adjustable similar to the 200dx when the actual product is not.
    Everlast 200DX
    Everlast PT185
    Shoptask 3-in-1 (not currently in my garage, but I own it...)

    Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
    4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 195.82mph 1/4 mile

  14. Default

    I should know better than to get involved with a foot pedal discussion after starting up the one on my 200 DX a couple of months ago but what the heck. I was curious and took a look at the 185 manual that's on-line here on the web. If you already know the curious ways that these pedals operate the various notes and manual descriptions do make sense to me. I you don't have the benefit of first hand experience or the discussions in these forums I still think it's way too easy to miss the point of how the pedals on the various machines operate. I was used to the way the pedals operated on all the Miller welders at school and on my ThermalArc. I've come to peace with how the pedal works on my 200 DX. I would think that it would save a lot of frustration if ALL of the Everlast welders worked the same way. Would I have paid $100-150 more for my 200 DX to have panel control of the max amps with and without pedal... Yes, given the option I would have.

    Seems that the pedal is a common source of confusion. I'd noticed when browsing Ebay the other day that the feature note for the 185 states:

    FOOT PEDAL

    YES/OVERIDES PANEL AMPS WITH FULL RANGE OF AMPS AVAILABLE AT PEDAL. NO LIMIT (SUBJECT TO CHANGE. CONSULT EVERLAST)

    Come on Everlast... save yourselves and your customers some frustration and build consistency into the product line. I really think folks will pay for it since we're already getting such a good deal...
    Gary

    200 DX, ThemalArc 250, Century 130 MIG
    HF 8x14, HF Mill, Delta drill press and a bunch of power, air and hand tools...

  15. #35

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    Tinker,
    You miss the point here. We offer different product level of features, and accessories at different price points. While YOU might have paid more, not EVERYONE will. IF you were willing to pay more, then for just a little more than the additional amount you say you were willing to pay, you could have bought the 225lx. In fact, we also have other import product lines we have to compete with, so price IS an issue for us on both sides. Our competition is on both sides.

    We've been updating our site with EXPLICIT details on how these units work. If people cannot or do not read the material we have available on the product, then that is all we can do. Manuals are being updated, as somethings have changed. WE ALSO PUT PICTURES OF THE PANEL FACE ON THE WEBSITE, SO THAT ALL CAN SEE THE UNITS FEATURES/FUNCTIONS/RANGES. IF people do not avail themselves of all of this, there is nothing more to be done, except take us up on the trade up policy.

    Additional NOTE:
    Ebay is not the official site or location of specifications. Our site located by hitting the "home" button on the forum IS however. But as with anything, specifications are subject to change without notice. Anyone wanting to know if a change has been made or if anything significant has changed from the stated specifications, is welcome and encouraged to ask and verify at the time of purchase.

    Check out the following page, and has been in place for about 3 weeks now or so. Not much more we can do.
    http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Po...o-3910-pd.html
    Last edited by performance; 03-15-2012 at 10:13 PM.

  16. Default

    Hi Mark, Hey you know for the most part we like your stuff. These pedal issues just keep surfacing from time to time so I'm guessing that I'm not the only one that didn't do a thorough enough job reading the specs to understand that the various pedals work differently. I'm just saying that if the pedals in the whole line worked consistently the same way it would reduce the confusion. I have no idea how many units you folks sell so maybe the posts represent such a small percentage of the buyers it's a non-issue from a business perspective. I can appreciate that.

    In my case I actually bought my 200 DX from an Ebay reseller I guess. The price was great, the shipping was free, etc. It was advertised as a limited time special so I jumped on it. I'd been looking for an AC inverter unit for some time and just stumbled on this seller. I was familiar with other units but didn't even realize Everlast had a web site with direct sales... I did Google some to find some reviews but for some reason didn't find the Everlast site. Too much in a hurry to get my hands on the welder. I surely would have bought the 225LX at the time if I'd have been aware of it and the operating differences. It would have been an automatic upsell :^) I made some incorrect assumptions that the unit would operate the same as all the others I've used so I'm not blaming you guys.

    The bottom line is that I'm OK with the way things turned out with my 200 DX.

    BTW the only reason I included the Ebay note on the 185 pedal was that it was an ad posted by Everlast Canada. I'm used to seeing some specifications subject to change but the basic operation of a footpedal?

    You guys have bigger fish to fry and a business to run so I'll shut up go back to my garage and weld some stuff.
    Gary

    200 DX, ThemalArc 250, Century 130 MIG
    HF 8x14, HF Mill, Delta drill press and a bunch of power, air and hand tools...

  17. #37

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    As far as changes, some of them are made to reduce problems or issues with the unit. Others are made to hold the price down and keep some separation in the lineup. If we offered an EX with the same features and functions in a 200, 225, and 250 amp level, we'd have a lot of stock of one unit or the other, and eventually only sell one unit, because someone would complain and ask why we are charging so much extra for the same unit, just a little bit different amperage. It just wouldn't fly. There needs to be significant feature differences, especially in the TIGs to keep them selling and keep a broad range of prices, and product.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    ... There needs to be significant feature differences, especially in the TIGs to keep them selling and keep a broad range of prices, and product.
    So is that the reason it was decided to have the 200DX control the amps in such a convoluted way, with that knob on the pedal? Was that the purpose of giving it a non-standard, less desirable amp control, to differentiate the product from others in the line?
    Some of the crap I use to keep busy:

    Everlast 200DX
    Millermatic 211 Mig
    Hypertherm Powermax 30 plasma cutter
    Lincoln Weld-Pak 100
    Century Stick welder
    Oxy set-up with Henrob 2000 torch
    Logan 200 lathe (60 years old)
    Jet band saw
    About 6 Harbor Freight grinders with different discs/wheels/brushes

  19. #39

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    Joe,
    Yes, in part, and as I said, price. Everything has a cost even to us. But we're not the only ones ever to feature this type control.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe from NY View Post
    So is that the reason it was decided to have the 200DX control the amps in such a convoluted way, with that knob on the pedal? Was that the purpose of giving it a non-standard, less desirable amp control, to differentiate the product from others in the line?
    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    Joe,
    Yes, in part, and as I said, price. Everything has a cost even to us. But we're not the only ones ever to feature this type control.
    Not any more...
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan winch View Post
    I suppose i should anounce the 200DX foot pedal is now a little different in that it is now controlled by the panel Amps . In affect this gives the same control as the 225Lx and 250EX.
    In addition the New Amp controlled torches will work on the new 200DX models.
    Noit sure if the US has these but for any Canucks interested we have them arriving on Tuesday.
    Cheers
    Duncan
    Click for>EVERLAST YOUTUBE CHANNEL VIDEOS

    I'm not an expert or an Everlast employee, I'm just a hobby welder sharing my experience and helping where I can.

    PP 256 (SOLD) : 2013 250EX : I-MIG 250P/w 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60/w p80 torch : Hobart Handler 135/w 12' .023" Profax gun : 3M Speedglas 9100XX

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