View Full Version : Associating the tick marks on the AC Balance and AC Freg panel
01-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Hi could somebody please associate the tick marks on the AC Balance and AC Freq panel for me?
Is it reasonable to think that the 9 oclock position on the AC Balance is 62.5hz, 12 oclock is 125hz and 3 oclock is 187.5hz?
If this right, what are the intermediate tick mark readings?
Is it similar to the AC Freq tick marks? 9oclock = 25% 12=50% 3=75%
When I hear or read other welders mention their settings for A/L , it's like 35hz for balance and 65% freq. I just guestimate where to turn the knobs.
I might have ADD or something, but I need to know how to read those tick marks.
I'm not going to even ask about the other knobs. I will reference those marks depending the I answer I get from the question above.
Thanks in advance,
01-12-2011, 07:08 PM
The markings are for reference and repeatability. They are approximate but are not a "guarantee" of exactness. In any type of welding situation, the best guide is your eyes and your experience and the feel you want.
I believe you have gotten your settings reversed. Its typically 35% positive(or less), and about 120-160 hz on the machines. 35Hz would be quite low to weld AC, unless you had a special need of it.
01-12-2011, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the quick response. Shows that you care.
In the past I used a welder with digital readouts and wanted to replicate the settings as much as possible.
With my pp205, I notice that there is a noticeable difference in the smallest movement of the dial settings.
Yes, you are right about me mixing up the hz and % settings.
01-12-2011, 07:48 PM
I guess what also confused me was Jody's setting in his video at 5:30
He mentioned 120 hz on AC Freq was pointing to 2oclock and 65% settings for AC Bal and the knob was pointing to around the 11 oclock position.
Both don't jive with what I was thinking it would read at 135 hz for Freq and 35% Bal. Jody may have simply estimated it wrong.
01-12-2011, 09:20 PM
Two things that need to be pointed out and are misunderstood:
1) We use AC positive when referring to balance. Miller uses AC negative. He (Jody) referred to both I believe. We did not get it wrong. When referring to AC, you always speak of the amount of cleaning action. AC positive offers the cleaning action, so naturally you speak of % of positive. Now, I had a brief discussion at the welding show in November with some young Miller engineers who were somewhat redfaced when I inquired about their customary % negative orientation. They replied, that they knew it was wrong but it was a result years ago that a old Miller engineer made and now they are stuck with it.
2) Also, if you follow Jody's videos, he is not only looking at our products. He also has some where he is discussing Miller, particularly the new Diversion where they fixed the AC freq at 120 hertz. He did talk about 120 hertz in our videos to be sure. But it is possible that he did state one things and mean another. Or it is possible he was judging by the sound of the arc as being 120 hz. He has an earlier unit that some weren't quite as linear in adjustment. However, if you use his 2 and 10 (think driver's ed) positioning, you still won't go wrong. I usually use it at about 11 and 3. But its all in preference. You can turn it back to about the 60 hz mark and hear the familiar buzz of the old transformer units...You can tell when it leaves the 50/60 hz range and goes higher. I set mine at the 60 Hz level and work up depending upon what I am doing. I haven't found occasion where 20 hz is appropriate yet.
I just wanted to say I was present for that conversation Mark is talking about, it was interesting. And I was pretty surprised at the number of big blue guys looking at our stuff and asking questions. And that’s just the ones that left they’re name tags on :Wink:
I talked briefly to Jody a couple of times when he was by the booth and according to him also, anyway you look at it, the Miller is “Backwards” on the A/C Balance settings. They just kind of set the “norm” way back.
As to not be accused of a highjack, and in no way disputing anything Mark is saying.
The settings we’re talking about are not all that critical. The digital machines (ours included) give you an amount of precision that really is not necessary in practical use.
Here’s my analogy for what it’s worth from a seat-of-the-paints point of view.
Imagine I’m explaining to you how to drive my new truck, My truck is high tech and has digital readouts for throttle position and brake pressure. (for whatever reason) I naturally assume you have driven other trucks before. So.
“When you pull out onto the freeway you’ll need to give it about ¾ throttle until it gets up to speed then back it off to about ¼. When you go to stop you’ll need to mash down almost half way, but if it’s slick you’ll have to use less. OK?”
I wouldn’t necessarily say use 72.6% throttle then about 24.5%, or 600 Psi brake, see what I’m getting at. Even though we have the precise info it wont make a noticeable difference if the throttle is at 75% or 72.6%. just as you probably won’t notice the difference between 120Hz or 110Hz in the feel of the weld. Or 35% or 37% cleaning.
Hence the reference to clock positions. And tweak it from there for preference. Just like I’d give you a general reference to throttle position.
The tick marks are kind of like the lane lines in the road to an Atlanta cab driver “reference only” LOL.
01-13-2011, 04:45 PM
Hi Mark and Ray,
Thank you for your well thought out and complete explanation of the tick marks and knob settings.
In particular, I'm happy to understand the the AC balance theory and how it differs from Miller.
I'm more of a set it and forget it welder, but it's good to know how to tweak the settings.
01-13-2011, 05:07 PM
Its ok to experiment with your settings. It will make you a better welder and a more knowledgeable, intuitive one as well. There really is not a one size fits all philosophy in welding.
I get it - "always speak of the amount of cleaning action." This makes it easier to decipher the different nomenclature.
So to be clear turning up the AC balance to 90% gives you the most cleaning and has 90% of the duty cycle as electrode positive? I do not use AC that much and the other day had to weld a broken casting and has set the AC balance at about 3:00 position and while it did a great job of welding a fairly thick aluminum casting used to hold the ignition coils it kept balling up the electrode. Now I understand why if I was going that high on electrode positive.
03-07-2011, 02:43 AM
This is directed toward you. Nor do I mean it to be anyway in offense, but rather I am puzzled myself about the lack of understanding on this issue. I am not sure if or how we can better explain it. It is mentioned in the manuals as well as Jody mentions the nuance in his welding video. I know we have routinely discussed it at length here on the forum here as well(I think there is a sticky about it, even). And there is a positive and negative sign on the control to indicate direction of control. What is it that we have missed in relaying the information to our customers about this? Anyone care to comment about the confusion? I'd honestly like to try to fix this if I can, but having tried myself to make sure it is everywhere I can think of, it leads me back to wonder if the issue is similar to the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?
Mark no offense taken, if you look at my only other post it had to do with the manual being wrong for the PM226 where it states for more cleaning increase ACEN and for more penetration use more DCEP also on my machine it only shows percentage 10 to 90 percent no place does it state if it is 90% ACEN or ACEP. So again to be clear Please confirm that when I set the balance to 90% it the duty cycle is mostly ACEP and when it is set counter clockwise to 10 % ACEP (less cleaning more penetration) the manual for my machine was never updated last I looked I will check now.
03-07-2011, 08:23 AM
The 226 is not an active model.
There was a typo in the earliest versions of the manual. It was corrected and all current manuals for current product are correct. Yours still should related to % of positive, even if the manual had a typo.