First tig welding attempts, and wp26 torch questions

[presure2]

Hey all, got my power pro205 in Monday, and have been playing with the tig.
I've never tig welded before, only welding experience I have is messing around with my 110v mig welder welding up exhausts and what not in the garage.
A buddy gave me a peice of ~3/16" aluminum diamond plate he had laying around, so that's what I started on. These pics are the first 3hrs of practice.
Various settings thruout, but the last couple pics are setup with:
3/16" aluminum diamond plate ( welding on the backside)
3/32 2% thoriated tungsten, sharpened to a dull point
3/32 4043 filler
~120-125 amps or so
AC freq. ~1:00
AC balance ~10:00
No pulse
A hair of pre and ~ a few seconds of post flow

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/6ea29cab.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/14e3eca8.jpg

I was pretty happy with the bead in the middle of this pic

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/3ea13d0b.jpg

Suggestions and comments are welcome and needed!!!
At least I feel like the hrs spent on jodys site helped alot, definitely would suggest to anyone starting out to make the time to go thru jodys site and watch and read as much as you can, lots of helpful info and as he calls it, "no bull, no frills, down and dirty welding tips and tricks!"
For those who don't know who I'm talking about, his site is www.weldingtipsandtricks.com
Also learned alot from you guys as well!!

[WILD BILL]

I'll say your progressing faster than I did http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/JohnnyCharger1968/Emoticons/thumbup.gif

[WaWelder]

Looks to me like your doing pretty well for a beginer. The welds I made the first time were not any better. Like you said, Jody's site is an amazing resource. The only suggestion I can give is to keep practicing. I spent several hours just playing with the various settings on my 250ex. Have fun!!

[presure2]

Thanks guys. Got some more practice in today, tried a t joint, broke way easy, definitely not enough penetration, which I pretty much expected.
Still need lots more practice, and a run to the local lhs, the gas cups that were sent with the welder are odd, they set 5,6, and 7 cups but only the 5 fits into the white collar that goes on the torch, but then the cup won't thread into place.
I ended up using the 7 cup, without the white collar.
Imma hit the local welding shop, see if I get some help from them and get some spares.
Also burned a couple 6010 rods, nothing pretty to show off, but it definitely sounds great and burns smooth, but thats another forum. Lol

[worntorn]

Try scribing some lines about 1/2" apart on the coupon, then try to follow the line when welding. It's best to have 3 or more coupons marked out like this, that way you always have one that is cooled enough to weld on when you are doing steady weld practice.

Once all of the lines on all of the coupons are filled up with weld, go back and do nice straight beads in between the existing beads.
In this way you will be learning to make a straight weld at the same time you are learning to tig weld.


Glen

[presure2]

Try scribing some lines about 1/2" apart on the coupon, then try to follow the line when welding. It's best to have 3 or more coupons marked out like this, that way you always have one that is cooled enough to weld on when you are doing steady weld practice.

Once all of the lines on all of the coupons are filled up with weld, go back and do nice straight beads in between the existing beads.
In this way you will be learning to make a straight weld at the same time you are learning to tig weld.


Glen

Thanks for the tip, glen, I'll have to try that.

Anyone have any thoughts on the torch issue? Found out new Bedford welding supply is 1.4 miles from my work, so I will probably stop by there tommorow while I'm on my lunch break with the torch and see what we come up with.

[worntorn]

oh one other thing, make it easy on yourself and start in by tig welding on mild steel. Not saying it can't be done by learning on Aluminum right off, but it is more difficult, so you might as well master torch handling and rod feed while welding the easier metal. I think the overall time required to get proficient will be less if you start out this way.

Aluminum requires more pedal control and is generally just a tougher row to hoe.

Glen

[robx7fcna]

Clean, clean and clean! That aluminum looks kinda dirty, I would hit it with a wire brush, then wipe it down with some acetone to get a nice clean bead. Aluminum is a sponge and sucks up oils and contaminants like crazy, so it makes a huge difference to prep the material before you weld

Other than that it looks like you are off to a great start. I see a couple of black spots where you might have contacted the tungsten to the base metal, if that happens make sure to clean up the tungsten to maintain a nice even arc.

[dgarnier]

Do you always get a black soot spot when you hit the tungsten? I have been working on getting the tungsten as close as I can to the puddle with out dipping in. Some times I will start getting what looks like a green glow to the arc and I just assumed that was when the filler hit the tungsten.

[presure2]

Yea, this aluminum is really crappy, and the soot is crap burning off when I dip the tungsten, I assume.
I used a 40grit grinding disk to cut off the crap and crud. I gotta bet some better stuff to practice on.

[jakeru]

That is correct. The "soot", aka "smut", happens when aluminum gets on the hot tungsten tip and vaporizes, then the aluminum vapor condenses (usually combining with oxygen in the atmosphere) and forms millions of tiny aluminum oxide particles (they have a black powder "soot like" appearance due to the small size of the particles.) You can also wipe it right off.

Also, yes, sometimes its possible to touch your tungsten and not get any smut or very minimal amount. Sometimes you get a big blob of of metal wicked up onto your tungsten. It depends what you are welding, and how hot your tungsten is. Sometimes if you get just a tiny bit, you can "burn it off" and keep welding. Trying to burn off a metal blob off your tungsten can make a mess though. And your tungsten may not really ever fully recover from it, until you grind it down fresh.

[IST Dave]

Still need lots more practice, and a run to the local lhs, the gas cups that were sent with the welder are odd, they set 5,6, and 7 cups but only the 5 fits into the white collar that goes on the torch, but then the cup won't thread into place.
I ended up using the 7 cup, without the white collar.

It sounds like you may be trying to install the cups backwards. The chamfered side should be toward the torch, sealing against the white collar.

-Dave

[presure2]

It sounds like you may be trying to install the cups backwards. The chamfered side should be toward the torch, sealing against the white collar.

-Dave

hehe, you know, that is a distinct possibility.
ill get some pics this weekend.

[presure2]

hey guys, finally had some time to mess with the welder some, and like was posted above, i had installed the gas cup backwards..lol
anyway, played somemore with some 1/8th steel, welding up some butt joints without filler rod to get a feel for torch speed and manipilation...couldnt bust em apart after smashing them over 90* in the vice with a BFH, so i guess its getting better!
argon tank is just about empty, its under 500psi on the gauge now..ill have to have it refilled this week.
thanks!

[aaxiss]

I have also been taking a sharpie marker and putting the the date on my practice coupons . I use 4 4"x 6" 3/16 mils steel. I rotate through 3 of them each session leaving one from the session before out to compare to just out of the way. when i am done i Put the date on the three that I used that session and wipe the comparison one clean, that one will be rotated in on the next session and the best one from my previous session will be my comparison piece.

Now here is the reason for the dates, when i get done with a tig practice session I take pictures of the coupons and the front of the welder so I can remember my settings and compare them to the dated coupon, I am also making alot of notes and I have a few cheat sheets to look at for welder settings and weld appearance ( how they look , too hot, too cold, too fast, too, slow ect,) cant remember where I found that pic but it helped at the beginning a lot. My biggest problem now is just getting into a rhythm once i have the correct amp setting . I am paralyzed from the chest down and use the 4t setting on my torch and use that to control my heat by constantly tapping the torch button from steady arc, to my end/start to feather the arc for lack of a better term all the while keeping my forward and back motion and feeding the filler in at the proper time to get that proper stacked overlap look. Right now my longest bead that looks primo is abut 4" long .

I forsee lots more practice until I no longer have to think about what I am doing with the torch and can just think about the bead I am laying down. Right now I go an inch or two and fall out of rhythm and then have about 1/2 or so where it gets ugly and then I pick it up again and get back into a rhythm,but I really have to think a lot about what I a doing. With practice ( a lot more) I am hoping It all becomes a lot more instinctive and I will just automatically do what I need to do based on what I am seeing that having to think about every "step" as I go.

BTW do what glen said and scribe lines 1/2 " apart, weld those then fill the gaps once all the lines have beads. when those are full rotate your work 90 deg and do the same thing until you fill that flat the turn 90 again , just keep repeating that. And I forgot to mention, I am practicing on mild steel because it's easier and doesn't have to be cleaned so much as aluminum. And on last Thing......

Never use brake cleaner to clean any metal before you weld on it. It has the ingredients in it to create Phosgene gas and will kill you. read this http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Good old Mineral spirits wiped on with a cloth rag and the wiped again with a dry rag will do the trick safely. I try to stay away from anything aerosol since reading that. I am by no means a pro so any feedback from more experienced welders on this subject would be appreciated.

Good luck and Practice, practice, Practice :)

[Timberwolf]

I have also been taking a sharpie marker and putting the the date on my practice coupons . I use 4 4"x 6" 3/16 mils steel. I rotate through 3 of them each session leaving one from the session before out to compare to just out of the way. when i am done i Put the date on the three that I used that session and wipe the comparison one clean, that one will be rotated in on the next session and the best one from my previous session will be my comparison piece.

Now here is the reason for the dates, when i get done with a tig practice session I take pictures of the coupons and the front of the welder so I can remember my settings and compare them to the dated coupon, I am also making alot of notes and I have a few cheat sheets to look at for welder settings and weld appearance ( how they look , too hot, too cold, too fast, too, slow ect,) cant remember where I found that pic but it helped at the beginning a lot. My biggest problem now is just getting into a rhythm once i have the correct amp setting . I am paralyzed from the chest down and use the 4t setting on my torch and use that to control my heat by constantly tapping the torch button from steady arc, to my end/start to feather the arc for lack of a better term all the while keeping my forward and back motion and feeding the filler in at the proper time to get that proper stacked overlap look. Right now my longest bead that looks primo is abut 4" long .

I forsee lots more practice until I no longer have to think about what I am doing with the torch and can just think about the bead I am laying down. Right now I go an inch or two and fall out of rhythm and then have about 1/2 or so where it gets ugly and then I pick it up again and get back into a rhythm,but I really have to think a lot about what I a doing. With practice ( a lot more) I am hoping It all becomes a lot more instinctive and I will just automatically do what I need to do based on what I am seeing that having to think about every "step" as I go.

BTW do what glen said and scribe lines 1/2 " apart, weld those then fill the gaps once all the lines have beads. when those are full rotate your work 90 deg and do the same thing until you fill that flat the turn 90 again , just keep repeating that. And I forgot to mention, I am practicing on mild steel because it's easier and doesn't have to be cleaned so much as aluminum. And on last Thing......

Never use brake cleaner to clean any metal before you weld on it. It has the ingredients in it to create Phosgene gas and will kill you. read this http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Good old Mineral spirits wiped on with a cloth rag and the wiped again with a dry rag will do the trick safely. I try to stay away from anything aerosol since reading that. I am by no means a pro so any feedback from more experienced welders on this subject would be appreciated.

Good luck and Practice, practice, Practice :)

Good practice not to use it, but only chlorinated cleaners can create phosgene. I use non chlorinated and then dry it off with air if I absolutely need it clean. Or more typically I just use acetone

[aaxiss]

yea I head acetone is good too, but I didn't have any of that. had the mineral spirits and some MEK which I didn't want to try as that stuff has a bunch of ingredients that sounded bad, and I didn't want to take any chances.

I will add acetone to my list ... mineral spirits, alcohol in a hand spray bottle and acetone ( gotta buy some once I'm up and about )

Pressure sore is getting better but I'm still limited to only 30 mins of sitting time every 4 hours but I'm healing fast.

[DaveO]

I bought some acetone recently because I heard you could mix it 50/50 with radiator fluid to make a penetrating fluid for rusty bolts. (Haven't tried it yet.) But this idea probably belongs in the "shop tips and tricks" thread.

Don, glad to hear you're getting better!

[dgarnier]

why not just hit it with a stainless wire wheel? That is what I have been doing and it give you nice clean shinny metal to work with

[Timberwolf]

why not just hit it with a stainless wire wheel? That is what I have been doing and it give you nice clean shinny metal to work with

If you try that on aluminum you will just smear and embed the oxides

[aaxiss]

Yep, the wheel will deposit particles into all the fine scratches it leaves behind. If the alum is very Oxidized you should use a very fine stainless brush to clean the weld area then go over that with a cleaner like we have been discussing here. I'm doing Mild steel still so the Powered wire wheel followed by a wipe of Min spirits has been working fine. By the time I'm outta bed I will have gone back a few paces in my practice I think.

Will make some new practice Pieces out of some of that rusty old 3" .250 channel my dad got. It's very rusty so will have a lot of cleaning to do with the wire wheel or even the paddle wheel sanding discs. Still a couple weeks away I think though. I refuse to buy metal to practice on :)

[dgarnier]

ahh ok not sure if the brush I have is fine or not, but I do know that its nice and shinny metal when I am done and if I do my part ok it weld pretty nice

[aaxiss]

Presure2;

Post some more pics once you get some more gas and try the different cups, interested to see the difference using different cups. your definitely doing better than me I haven't even attempted alum yet with the 250ex. I did notice a few craters on some of your beads. same thing I am working on now is using the end amps feature to deposit my last drop of filler and reverse a bit as I hit the button to end the bead.

Your probably using the foot pedal I would assume so it's maybe something you don't rely on as much as I do using pre set amperage . a little more pre flow , start/end amps feature and about 7 secs of post flow . I would post up some pics of my mild steel practice pieces but my parents are on vacation and I'm kinda layed-up in bed with no access to my camera , my mom took my camera bag with both my video and still camera in it by mistake and I think she likes them both better than hers. LOL She called me on the phone the day after they left and I had to explain how to use them for her . She got lucky I had just put the charger for the video camera back in the bag about 2 days prior :)

Good luck to you and keep posting some of those practice pictures I will be watching this thread as I think I want to try doing some alum soon and any tips/critique you get will help me and others as well.

Thanks for posting and GL on your progression.. Practice etc etc

:)

[presure2]

thanks for the tips guys!
ive read abotut the brake cleaner thing, somthing i've got to do is make a trip to HF and get some brushes and whatnot to dedicate to cleaning.
im going to attempt to repair a friends exhaust this weekend, ill see if i can get some in progress pics as i go.
:)

[presure2]

hey guys, didnt get any pics of the exhaust repair, it was mostly ugly welds on rusty metal. lol

i did manage to get some practice with some aluminum tubing, a friend is finishing up a swap, and is going to need some intercooler piping tigged up, so he brought me a peice of the aluminum piping he bought thru ebay for it.

being a noob, it took a few passes to get into some settings that worked for me, but i was able to get a bead going after a short while, and although my technique is still very incosistant, i can see improvements after every bead, and for now, thats all i can ask for!
here are the settings i ended up using.

~80 amps (playing with the footpedal to control things once i get going)
1/16" 2% thoriated tungsten (still need to get some lanth here soon to try)
#6 cup IIRC
3/32" 4043 filler rod (all i have ATM)
ac freq ~ 100
ac balance ~ 40%
just a hair of pre flow, and ~3-5 sec of post flow
.065" wall aluminum tubing

here are a few pics.

2011201220132014

still dipping the tungsten occasionally thruout, and keeping the torch angle consistant on the round stuff is proving to be a freeking challange from god himself!! lol
but, i feel like im making progress.
i know i should be concentrating on running flat beads on sheet steel and aluminum right now, but the ADHD kicks in like crazy if i try and sit and do one thing for too long..lol

now, a couple questions.
if i went to a larger tungsten (3/32") would i need less amps? and would the bead be wider/flatter?
how much gas flow should i be using?
i have a 60# tank, and emptied it this weekend in just a few hrs of work, is that normal? (im going to step up in size on the next refill)

[presure2]

Any input on my questions, guys?
Also are those "gas saver" lenses any good? Do you actually save gas with em?

[aaxiss]

1/16 tungsten seems appropriate for what your welding now material thickness wise, but yes a larger tungsten will create a wider arc given the same voltage but overall less penetration. usually you you will get a wider bead and a bigger cleaning etch zone the bigger you go with your tungsten electrode. of course that is controllable with more EN and frequency . What are you looking for in your welds, how would you want them to be different ?

argon flow rate : well with argon being 1-1/3 heavier than air it naturally wants to flow down and cover the weld puddle 15--20 CFH or cubic feet per hour should suffice. for vert or over head start at 20 and go from there. To answer Your other question You seem to have some decent welds so I am guessing you somewhere in that 15-20 CFH zone... So if you think you did 3 hours of welding I would expect your tank to be empty if it's a 60cf tank

The gas lens Well a lens is designed to evenly distribute the gas flow around the weld zone and will actually allow you more tungsten stick out up to an inch or more with proper gas flow for greater visibility in certain welding situations and the more pricey engineered porous media filters lenses create a much better laminar flow and may allow you to turn down your gas flow because of the superior shielding effects of the lens body vs a standard collet body. But also keep in mind lenses are considered consumables and will get contaminated and need to be replaced occasionally and will increase the cost factor most likely , because being new to tig and still dipping the tungsten as you say you are can actually cause your welds to look worse and show a really erratic cleaning etch because of a contaminated screen/filter . Keep in mind also each tungsten size needs the proper lens size so as a beginner you can see how costs could add up fast. If anything I would definitely go to a bigger tank at least 150cf and concentrate on the welder settings a bit more and just practice practice practice

I think after looking at your welds it just comes down to speed technique and the ability to stay fluid and smooth over longer beads and thinner filler or dropping the frequency will help create a flatter weld by having a wider less focused arc but the cleaning etch will get bigger also

I hope I have answered some f you questions to your satisfaction. Try the Miller welding site under the resources tab . Just about everything about welding can be found there

[presure2]

Don, thanks so much for the detailed response, I appreciate it.
Definitely will be getting a larger tank here soon, got a little practice tonight, getting smoother every time I pick up the torch.
Gonna get some fresh metal to practice on this weekend.

[aaxiss]

Once I am up and around I will be starting in on aluminum once I get my new welding table built. That's another Project I been working on as funds allow .

Your weld quality has progressed quite well and I hope to progress as quickly Having only done a smidgin of aluminum welding many years ago before losing the ability to use a foot pedal. Will be a great learning experience. :)

Cheers and keep up the practice and get to know every setting on your machine and you will be welding like a pro in no time :)

[presure2]

got more practice in today, another hr or so, starting to get a little more consistant and co-ordinated with both hands, i think once i get some extra cash to either build a welding table, or at least get one of those portable "nomad" welding table like jody uses, it will really help, right now im welding on a wood topped bench thats way to high for me, with a peice of 3/8" steel laying on top that i use as a ground point/heat sink
so settings are as follows:
3/16" aluminum diamond plate (welding on the backside)
3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten, ground to a dull point
3/23" 4043 filler rod
160amps max footpedal controlled
a/c frequency @ ~125
a/c balance @ ~ 40%
a few pics:
the first is the overall pratice, the last couple are my best bead so far.
got a little hot there right at the beginning, started working the pedal back a little late.
still need some work filling that crater there at the end, i gotta work on putting in that little bit of extra filler as i work the pedal more.
getting there!!
thanks for all the tips so far guys, its helping and working! keep em coming!!

[Jason]

I need to spend a lot of time practicing. Your welds are looking good from my opinion. I also need a table and was thinking about getting something that folds up or building one so that it does not have to sit out in the way as the shop is getting full. I have been using a vise that is on a bench way high for me. When I had pipe in the vise, it was about my chest level well I was standing and I had a heck of a time on it.

[yotarover]

Hey all, got my power pro205 in Monday, and have been playing with the tig.
I've never tig welded before, only welding experience I have is messing around with my 110v mig welder welding up exhausts and what not in the garage.
A buddy gave me a peice of ~3/16" aluminum diamond plate he had laying around, so that's what I started on. These pics are the first 3hrs of practice.
Various settings thruout, but the last couple pics are setup with:
3/16" aluminum diamond plate ( welding on the backside)
3/32 2% thoriated tungsten, sharpened to a dull point
3/32 4043 filler
~120-125 amps or so
AC freq. ~1:00
AC balance ~10:00
No pulse
A hair of pre and ~ a few seconds of post flow

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/6ea29cab.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/14e3eca8.jpg

I was pretty happy with the bead in the middle of this pic

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/presure2/3ea13d0b.jpg

Suggestions and comments are welcome and needed!!!
At least I feel like the hrs spent on jodys site helped alot, definitely would suggest to anyone starting out to make the time to go thru jodys site and watch and read as much as you can, lots of helpful info and as he calls it, "no bull, no frills, down and dirty welding tips and tricks!"
For those who don't know who I'm talking about, his site is www.weldingtipsandtricks.com
Also learned alot from you guys as well!!

you did better than i did when i first started tigging (my teacher said Aaron you can stick and mig like a villain im gonna leave you alone for the next couple days when i come back you better be able to lay me a bead and spell your name) i miss that woman *yes a woman taught me to weld* i couldn't do anything but just melt the metal and waste the tungsten , keep practicing you'll get there

[presure2]

yea, thats what its all about! the pics at the bottom of page one are more recent that these ones you quoted, definetly more consistant.
gonna try and get some practice on 1/8" steel today in a little bit.

[aaxiss]

I'm still out of commission, envious of you guys getting to play in your man caves. Presure2 Please add you first name to your sig or I might just start calling you Celica LOL.

You are making some great progress, I definitely see a lot more steadiness and uniformity in your weld now compared to the first pictures. Well done . P P P :)

[yotarover]

keep burning that's the only way your gonna get better. when you get burnt out from trying to run beads or trying to nail a position. just start welding crap together get creative or jump to really hard position. (just like with a woman try something new it might blow her mind) for me and few others we were having trouble doing the simple positions. but excelled in doing to hard ones like over head and so on.

aaxiss- man let me tell you i feel ya. been taking radiation treatments for the last month, every since i decided to wire my building to get power out there. my welder has been in the box they shipped it to me in. i haven't even been back to school to finish up my degree, had to leave before the semester ended last year cause i started feeling sick. now i can't go back till i pay back a freaking 200$ student loan i forgot all about lol. from what my doc tells me i may not even be able to be around the welding arc. i def can't handle to heat and sun anymore im only 26 and had 2 brain tumors and surgery's in my life. now i may have to sit on the side line and watch all you guys weld:( "not trying to hijack your thread Preasure"

keep up with what your doing

[aaxiss]

Not it Hijack either. But keep up the good Fight Aaron, Never take Dr. word 100% at anything he tells you you can't do. You want to weld, go weld (Baby Steps) or at least go open that new welder up, It might inspire ya. Tell the Dr to give ya a Prescription for reglan (anti-nausea) That will help. That sounds screwy what the Dr. said about never being around an arc, It's just very strong UV Radiation (Same as the sun). If ya have to, Put an AC Unit out in your shop to help with the heat issues. There is also clothing and devices to help control body temp Issues. I use some .

Do you want to go back to school? If your Able?, If you do
I'll help ya get the $200.00 I hope it's not 200k.

( Have you Tried Writing a formal Financial Hardship Letter to the school?)

If you Send Me a Copy of The Bill or Last letter with balance ETC. I'll set up a Charitable foundation for you so I can legally ask for money to help pay that off for ya. I'm sure Everlast Would Give a dollar as would most active members to help get ya back to school.

" Never be too proud to accept help when offered, but never be too selfish to offer help when needed "

Let me Know if I can Help in any way Aaron, Please

HIjack over

[presure2]

No worries, guys, it's all good.
We're a community here. If I can help out in some way, let me know.

[performance]

Yota,
I think he is worried about you being photosensitive, or possibly having an epileptic seizure. In either case, there is something to be done about it. Cover up and wear sunscreen, you should be fine on that account. Just don't forget the area below your neck. If its a seizure related thing, then unless you use pulse or something, the chance is remote. Pulse welding can cause epileptic fits at the right frequency.

[aaxiss]

yep i have medication that effects me that way also when I have kidney infections. Columbia outdoor wear makes a super light weight UV protect long sleeve shirt ( I have 4 ) That actually makes you feel really cool , even in mid-summer 95 deg heat .

Here is a link to just one style http://outlet.altrec.com/columbia/mens-ultra-stop-long-sleeve-crew

and to protect your neck from flash burn I just pop-riveted a piece of fairly soft cowhide leather from an old welding apron about 3" at the sides and 6" in the Center to protect my neck,

For 19.00 shipped I got a nice pair or Goatskin slip on single sleeves and love them
http://www.amazon.com/Tillman-Goatskin-Retardant-Cotton-Sleeves/dp/B003GMBPTY/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&qid=1307422740&sr=8-35

now we got ya covered literally

eat lots of protein. you need energy during Chemotherapy treatments. 14oz Ensure high protein low cal 210 + 2 oz beef jerky total 350 cal and 55g protein only 6g fat total ( plus the ensure has a ton of vitamins) So if you do the Ensure as breakfast to get ya going and he jerky as a couple of shop snax with sensible lunch an dinner you will notice a difference in your energy level. of course you can buy protein mix which is cheaper but not so tasty .

here's my bedside table, I speak from experience, the high protein, low fat menu helped me heal up faster and I just feel more energetic .
2273

Cheers and Pm me if you need anything within my capacity to help you with....

[Tritium]

Here is in my opinion one of the best and easiest protein sources to use. I buy 5000 tablets at a time. Should be very useful for chemotherapy patients. http://www.nutrex-hawaii.com/spirulina.html

Thurmond

[aaxiss]

yea but my way you get a meal and 2 snacks :). Think I'm going to order a bottle and try it . If it lives up to the hype it will be a great upgrade from the centrum I take daily. TY Thurmond

[Tritium]

Don, Snacks are good and I love jerky (I am having some right now). I have been eating spirulina for 25 years. I have seen insulin dependent diabetics get to the point of very seldom injections by using spirulina regularly. I experience very good health that I attribute to it. Of course YMMV. It will tend to flush the body of toxins when first taken. I am not affiliated with Nutrex, just a satisfied consumer. Sorry to the OP for getting off topic.

Thurmond

[MR2 Josh]

Great progress man!